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KEWELL10
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 Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 12:04 am Post subject: Saddam Hussein |
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What are your views about Saddam Hussein and the situation at the moment?
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CHITOWNSEADOG
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| Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 12:41 am Post subject: Re: Saddam Hussein |
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give him a free trip back to Iraq and send our boys home- Let the Iraqies sort it out
Actually, he should be executed but it won't solve a thing and will probably be notch in Bush's belt. I dread hearing the praise he'll get for capturing Hussein in his "war on terror". (he's a f*ckin tool!!)
I wonder why we dont take such an interest in Africa where innocents get slaughtered every day???
I just hope we can get a democrat in and try to repair some relations with the world. |
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Tonys Twostripes
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| Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 12:52 am Post subject: |
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Britain as a member of the EU which is against the death penalty should make this clear. Should tow this line. Still the reaction on the streets from ordinary Iraqis probalby means that it should be left up to them what they do with him. Afterall he isn't exactly Mr Popular and I think the reaction vindicates our prescence there.
That is why Chitowns comments are wrong. What kind of message does the US pulling out of Iraq portray ? We have to see it through now and build a better and more prosperous Iraq.
I don't glorify war and I am not blind to atrocities in other countries but I am safe knowing that the US is the most powerful nation in the world and can use its power to good effect.
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Chris_York1
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Joined: 14 Jan 2003
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Location: King's Square-ish, City Centre. KSC, Florida
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| Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 12:53 am Post subject: Re: Saddam Hussein |
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| KEWELL10 wrote: |
| What are your views about Saddam Hussein and the situation at the moment? |
Give the Iraqi people what they want....and they have.
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The Moleman
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Joined: 10 Jan 2005
Posts: 457
Location: Playing the banjo
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| Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 12:58 am Post subject: Re: Saddam Hussein |
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| CHITOWNSEADOG wrote: |
I wonder why we dont take such an interest in Africa where innocents get slaughtered every day???
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Exactly. But, as I've said before it is not in the interest of the allies to sort out a lot of these problems. They get nothing out of it. Places like Darfur and Burma could end up becoming the next Rwanada. Political action is needed, but too many countries are dragging their heals.
Let's hope that his execution will be the beginning of a new dawn for Iraq and the country can pull itself together. Personally I think it wrong, but otherwise more problems could be caused, there are very few other options. Cross fingers.
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The Moleman
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Joined: 10 Jan 2005
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| Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 1:04 am Post subject: |
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| Tonys Twostripes wrote: |
Britain as a member of the EU which is against the death penalty should make this clear. Should tow this line. Still the reaction on the streets from ordinary Iraqis probalby means that it should be left up to them what they do with him. Afterall he isn't exactly Mr Popular and I think the reaction vindicates our prescence there.
That is why Chitowns comments are wrong. What kind of message does the US pulling out of Iraq portray ? We have to see it through now and build a better and more prosperous Iraq.
I don't glorify war and I am not blind to atrocities in other countries but I am safe knowing that the US is the most powerful nation in the world and can use its power to good effect. |
I agree with you on one thing Tony! A huge surprise to myself, except for slightly different reasons. We cannot pull out, we should not have gone, but we should not pull out now. We have made a complete mess of things, especially the Americans and we need to help sort it. A gradual withdrawal is needed, but only when Iraqi security forces are up to scratch, and they are no where near that. I believe when the Allies leave it will make a stronger country because the soldiers' presence is a huge catalyst for problems. However, the situation is not right for withdrawal yet. If there were no decent security forces in Iraq it would cause much more chaos than there is currently.
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deeuu
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| Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 7:15 am Post subject: |
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Stupid decisions, Illegal war...we are teetering on the brink of a bloodbath, so will why one more death make any real difference?
What is the point in saying much more?
Many people know the real war criminals, Bush and Blair will go unpunished.
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MacPhail
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| Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 7:54 am Post subject: |
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Funny thing is though that many of those now expressing reservations about Saddam being executed would have been dancing in the streets had it been Pinochet ! 
The guy has the blood of thousands of his own people - men, women and children - on his hands and he was quick enough to hang his own opponents (or shoot them and bury them in ditches if he was feeling more warm and fuzzy that day.)
If anyone deserved it ...
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Frid
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| Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 9:35 am Post subject: |
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| deeuu wrote: |
Stupid decisions, Illegal war...we are teetering on the brink of a bloodbath, so will why one more death make any real difference?
What is the point in saying much more?
Many people know the real war criminals, Bush and Blair will go unpunished. |
TRUEST THING ON THIS THREAD.
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palfrexm
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| Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 10:10 am Post subject: |
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Will it be on telly?
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stiffy1
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Joined: 19 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 1:25 pm Post subject: |
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| I say kill the c**t, no matter what. |
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noddyinnapa
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| Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 3:10 pm Post subject: |
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| stiffy1 wrote: |
| I say kill the c**t, no matter what. |
Then he becomes a martyr (spel) and the trouble gets worse, let him rot in a stinking cell I say 
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gster
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| Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 3:44 pm Post subject: |
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I'm strongly against the death penalty, and as such one has to oppose it for anyone, even though it is probably true to say that if anyone deserves it Saddam does.
I do think however it risks making a martyr out of him, and it's difficult to see how his trial could be considered "fair" by any objective standards (yep, I know, Saddam was hardly a leading exponent of fair trials himself and you could say what comes around goes around, but we ought to be better than that).
There's also the fact that for many years the West was more than happy to support Saddam's staying in power and condoned his worst excesses when he was on "our side" against Iran.
However, I'm more concerned at the moment with the timing - what a f***ing coincidence the sentence is passed a couple of days before the crucial US elections where Bush is expected to get a pasting. If the verdict had happened a couple of weeks after, I would find it a lot less distasteful.
G
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noddyinnapa
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| Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 4:10 pm Post subject: |
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Typical politican, pinches my point, expands on it and waits for the plaudits 
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Wally Wynn
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| Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 4:47 pm Post subject: |
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deeuu said
| Quote: |
| Many people know the real war criminals, Bush and Blair will go unpunished. |
This comment implies that Saddam is not a real (war) criminal.
Amazing how selective you are deeuu!
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deeuu
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| Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 5:32 pm Post subject: |
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How does it imply that? 
Although I did pose this question elsewhere and nobody wants to go near it, wonder why?
| In another thread, Deeuu asked this question when he wrote: |
Even if you look at the "case" that was brought against Saddam it is hard to see much difference between the actions of the then Iraqi regime and that of the Bush regime in Afghanistan, except that the Iraqi Government retaliated for a direct attack on their head of state and 148 people died. Whereas the US retaliated against Afghanistan, for a direct attack on a financial institution and thousands died.
I would genuinely like someone to explain where the real difference is morally. Both in my opinion are wrong, but even in the UK people can be sentenced to death for high treason and firing her majesty's dockyards. What makes the actions of the Iraqi regime that different from that of other governments? |
Would you prefer the wording "the real criminals in THIS war" ?
They are all as bad as each other *, all have the blood of innocent men, women and children on their hands, although in this particular war the only ones using WMDs (wasn't that what Bush called chemical weapons?) are the Americans... and isn't the UN's condemnation deafening.
* I hope it is clear that I am not being selective at all.
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The Moleman
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| Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 5:54 pm Post subject: |
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| stiffy1 wrote: |
| I say kill the c**t, no matter what. |
Why not use the International Court in the Hague? Oh, yes. Because Bush could not influence the timing of the decision, nor would the judges be politically influenced in anyway. Also, no death penalty. Independent, free trial? Can't have that now could we?
Sad thing is, I don't support the execution, but it is going to happen. And as I said before I hope this helps to bring about a better Iraq. Not too confident about that though!
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tad8285
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| Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 6:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Personally i'd like to see the man suffer for what he has done in the past by letting him rot in a cell rather than hanging him. I'm just worried that if he is hung then attacks on British forces by insurgents will rise and due to myself deploying next week it is a subject im paying close attention to. |
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deeuu
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| Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 6:19 pm Post subject: |
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| tad8285 wrote: |
| Personally i'd like to see the man suffer for what he has done in the past by letting him rot in a cell rather than hanging him. I'm just worried that if he is hung then attacks on British forces by insurgents will rise and due to myself deploying next week it is a subject im paying close attention to. |
Couldn't agree more...
Keep you head down and stay safe...at least you'll probably not cop a 'dose' over there. 
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MarkW
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| Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 7:21 pm Post subject: |
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The debacle we are seeing unfolding on our TV screens each night (oh - and its going to get far, far worse folks) is simply what happens when you impose military might on a country for all the wrong (illegal) reasons.
Sham war = shambolic outcome.
Nothing more to add, really - other than I do feel genuinely sorry for our armed forces who are sent over there to try and mitigate the disaster caused by our media-driven politicians. |
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Walwyn
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| Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 8:01 pm Post subject: |
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Its all a convenient distraction from the civil war that has been ignited by our actions. Whether he rots in jail or dies is only of symbolic importance to the millions of civilians who are now in more danger than theyve ever been.
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Samtown
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| Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 10:14 pm Post subject: |
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| i dont usually have views on these sort of things. but heres some food for thought... hasnt george bush and tony blair killed more iraqs then sadam husain. |
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Tonys Twostripes
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| Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 11:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Samtown wrote: |
| i dont usually have views on these sort of things. but heres some food for thought... hasnt george bush and tony blair killed more iraqs then sadam husain. |
Saddam killed 290,000 Iraqis over 20 years. Estimates vary and also many figures can be very misleading to how many Iraqi civilians have died as a result of Coalitions action between 46,000 and 51,000.
Whatever way you look at it it is too many. But we must not leave there now.
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gster
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| Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2006 12:26 am Post subject: |
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| Tonys Twostripes wrote: |
| Samtown wrote: |
| i dont usually have views on these sort of things. but heres some food for thought... hasnt george bush and tony blair killed more iraqs then sadam husain. |
Saddam killed 290,000 Iraqis over 20 years. Estimates vary and also many figures can be very misleading to how many Iraqi civilians have died as a result of Coalitions action between 46,000 and 51,000.
Whatever way you look at it it is too many. But we must not leave there now.
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But if you count those who have died in the unrest since the war (i.e. not directly by coalition action) it's nearer 600,000
G
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Tonys Twostripes
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| Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2006 12:34 am Post subject: |
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| gster wrote: |
[But if you count those who have died in the unrest since the war (i.e. not directly by coalition action) it's nearer 600,000
G |
True it depends on your viewpoint how you interpret the figures. You could say that under Saddam there wasn't all the insurgency but this was because he was a Fearsome Dictator who ruled by fear. There was always going to be a big price for freedom and Democracy but in the end future generations of Iraqis will benefit from the strugglers of earlier.
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Ivan Dobsky
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| Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2006 9:52 am Post subject: |
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So what happened to the WMD's they were going to find? Oh, and where's Osama Bin Laden? Sorry, I forgot, he's not a priority anymore is he?
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deeuu
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| Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2006 10:05 am Post subject: |
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| Tonys Twostripes wrote: |
| There was always going to be a big price for freedom and Democracy but in the end future generations of Iraqis will benefit from the strugglers of earlier. |
Define this "Freedom and Democracy" that gives you a hard on Tony...
I have friends from Eastern Europe who now wish that they could return to the way things were before their counties became infected with mass unemployment, poverty and greed.
I suspect they would be even more pissed off if they had lost their families to gain access to Western "Freedom and Democracy".
But as always, Tony the sanctimonious US apologist knows best for the poor ignorant natives.
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DMN
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| Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2006 10:26 am Post subject: |
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| deeuu wrote: |
But as always, Tony the sanctimonious US apologist knows best for the poor ignorant natives. |
And that is the American way dag-nam it!
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Tonys Twostripes
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| Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2006 10:38 am Post subject: |
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| deeuu wrote: |
Define this "Freedom and Democracy" that gives you a hard on Tony...
I have friends from Eastern Europe who now wish that they could return to the way things were before their counties became infected with mass unemployment, poverty and greed.
I suspect they would be even more pissed off if they had lost their families to gain access to Western "Freedom and Democracy".
But as always, Tony the sanctimonious US apologist knows best for the poor ignorant natives. |
Yes I am sure your friends would like to return to the way things were. The good old days queing for bread under the commies If it was all so good perhaps they or preferably YOURSELF would like to emigrate to Trans Dniester.
You have no idea. There is always going to be conflict in the World. We have our struggle for freedom 100 years ago now people in other countries want the same. Intelligence is gained through freedom of information not the brain washing that exists under the regimes you champion.
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Ivan Dobsky
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| Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2006 10:52 am Post subject: |
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| Tonys Twostripes wrote: |
| If it was all so good perhaps they or preferably YOURSELF would like to emigrate to Trans Dniester. |
Surely not the 'Get back to Russia' argument in this day and age.
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