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UkrainianPhil
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Joined: 27 Dec 2003
Posts: 9066
Location: Mysteron HQ
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 Posted: Sat Mar 11, 2006 10:35 pm Post subject: Goodbye Sloba! |
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Today the sad news was announced of Slobodan Milosevic's death, under suspicious circumstances, at the illegal court at The Hague.
The sad passing of this statesman should hopefully lead to the kind of questions all citizens of our country should be asking.
Why is it that a guy who is innocent until proven guilty should be imprisoned for over FIVE YEARS without being convicted of anything?
Why is it that Milosevic was deliberately refused medical treatment, resulting in his death?
Why is it that, despite the incidents at Abu Graib, no American or British soldiers have been indicted by The Hague court?
Why is America allowed to ignore the Hague court, yet to everyone else it applies "legally"?
Why is it possible that a democratically elected leader can be indicted of "war crimes" by war criminals?
Why is it that no-one responsible for the bombing of the Chinese Embassy has been brought to justice by this "international" show court?
Why did NATO bomb Serbia in favour of the Kosovo Liberation Army who are Islamic terrorists linked to Al Qaeida and thus the September 11th atrocities, the Beslan slaughter and the London bombings?
When will Carlo Del Ponte be indicted for harrassment and murder?
I assume most responses will be that "He killed innocent people and so he deserved it". Well, what about Bush? Blair? Thatcher? These are war criminals by the same vein yet because those countries do not recognise The Hague Tribunal they are seen as "innocent"?
Rest In Peace Slobodan Milosevic, a man who tried to protect his country until his last breath. What a shame he wasn't English.
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deeuu
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Joined: 15 Jul 2002
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Location: Walking in Ned Kelly's Footsteps
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| Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2006 5:32 am Post subject: Re: Goodbye Sloba! |
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| UkrainianPhil wrote: |
| I assume most responses will be that "He killed innocent people and so he deserved it". . |
It's called "Western Propaganda" Phil. As my Hungarian friends says
| Quote: |
| "In the west it was claimed that under communism it was illegal to be unemployed, whereas we said employment was the right of every workers in a people's state" |
Funny that, especially listening to those who'll whinge the most in this thread, they're same ones who knock migrants from the former Comecon who travel throughout Europe in search of what was formerly their right before the EU/US Cartel economically destabilised their own countries in the name of "Democracy and Freedom".. 
Frankly I was not a fan of Milosevic, and am not of Saddam Hussien either but the arrogant bullies in the White House are the real criminals...why can't people see it?
Whatever happened to the "Sovereignty of States" that we heard so much of when the Kuwati Oil Supply was threatened?
My Hungarian friend also said:
minden erő -hoz szovjetek részére
egy szocialista Európa
legyőz -val a amerikai háborúpárti fattyú! 
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Jethro Q Walrustitty
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Joined: 19 Aug 2002
Posts: 412
Location: In my Joy Division Oven Gloves
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| Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2006 10:45 am Post subject: Re: Goodbye Sloba! |
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| deeuu wrote: |
My Hungarian friend also said:
minden erő -hoz szovjetek részére
egy szocialista Európa
legyőz -val a amerikai háborúpárti fattyú! |
Légpárnás hajóm tele van angolnákkal!
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deeuu
Forum Owner
Joined: 15 Jul 2002
Posts: 2423
Location: Walking in Ned Kelly's Footsteps
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| Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2006 11:36 am Post subject: Re: Goodbye Sloba! |
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| Jethro Q Walrustitty wrote: |
| deeuu wrote: |
My Hungarian friend also said:
minden erő -hoz szovjetek részére
egy szocialista Európa
legyőz -val a amerikai háborúpárti fattyú! |
Légpárnás hajóm tele van angolnákkal!
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My Hovercraft is full of Eels  
My friend laughed so hard she nearly wet herself
ne baszogass!
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TooOldToPogo
First team captain
Joined: 15 Nov 2003
Posts: 1565
Location: Manically searching for my ritalin
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| Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2006 11:41 am Post subject: |
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| UkrainianPhil wrote: |
| What he said |
What a load of rubbish, the man was a monster who had the blood of thousands of men women and children on his hands, just because others in the region and in other parts of the world are equally immoral cannot excuse the attrocities carried out in his name and on his behalf. It's not about who's side you're on.
Had your mother, wife and child been raped, tortured and then killed by someone would you still hold the same conviction that the perpetrator should be at his liberty until after any court case?
The reason that he was held for so long and the court case was so lengthy, was that the man was so ill procedings were constantly interupted and popstponed, his death came as no surprise as well you know. Conspiracy theorists stand down.
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UkrainianPhil
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Joined: 27 Dec 2003
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Location: Mysteron HQ
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| Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2006 11:55 am Post subject: |
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| TooOldToPogo wrote: |
| Had your mother, wife and child been raped, tortured and then killed by someone would you still hold the same conviction that the perpetrator should be at his liberty until after any court case? |
Milosevic actually did this?
I don't think so.
Is George Bush criminally responsible in a court of law for US war crimes at Abu Ghraib? Not that he would ever be arrested of course because some people are above the law.
You can't have a world where one person is "guilty" by doing the same thing as someone who is "innocent". They are either both guilty or both innocent. If Bush and Blair are innocent then so was Milosevic. In fact Bush has killed far more civilians in a much shorter space of time than Milosevic ever did.
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What we need is a bit of "Classic GLF"........
www.york.tv
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TooOldToPogo
First team captain
Joined: 15 Nov 2003
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Location: Manically searching for my ritalin
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| Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2006 1:47 pm Post subject: |
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| UkrainianPhil wrote: |
| TooOldToPogo wrote: |
| Had your mother, wife and child been raped, tortured and then killed by someone would you still hold the same conviction that the perpetrator should be at his liberty until after any court case? |
Is George Bush criminally responsible in a court of law for US war crimes at Abu Ghraib? Not that he would ever be arrested of course because some people are above the law.
You can't have a world where one person is "guilty" by doing the same thing as someone who is "innocent". They are either both guilty or both innocent. If Bush and Blair are innocent then so was Milosevic. In fact Bush has killed far more civilians in a much shorter space of time than Milosevic ever did.
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I cant disagree with that, but one does not excuse the other.
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Yabba
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Joined: 30 Jul 2002
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Location: The LOYAL part of town
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| Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2006 2:57 pm Post subject: |
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| UkrainianPhil wrote: |
| TooOldToPogo wrote: |
| Had your mother, wife and child been raped, tortured and then killed by someone would you still hold the same conviction that the perpetrator should be at his liberty until after any court case? |
Milosevic actually did this?
I don't think so.
Is George Bush criminally responsible in a court of law for US war crimes at Abu Ghraib? Not that he would ever be arrested of course because some people are above the law.
You can't have a world where one person is "guilty" by doing the same thing as someone who is "innocent". They are either both guilty or both innocent. If Bush and Blair are innocent then so was Milosevic. In fact Bush has killed far more civilians in a much shorter space of time than Milosevic ever did.
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Victors justice..........As it always is.
| Quote: |
| Rest In Peace Slobodan Milosevic, a man who tried to protect his country until his last breath |
The voice of misplaced Slav loyalty.
Not many flags flying at half mast in Belgrade today. Never-mind the mass murder he condoned, he robbed his own people & left them destitute also was overthrown as a result.
What would you be saying if government backed militias formed & massacred Kosovans/Bosnia's/Croats in this country, using 7/7 as a convenient excuse ?
I'd say good riddence to another Stalin like figure.
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tony canhan
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Joined: 26 Apr 2004
Posts: 679
Location: Selby
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| Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2006 4:21 pm Post subject: |
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The fact that his own people turned against him speaks volumes and as the previous poster said not many people are crying tears in Belgrade or anywhere in what is left of Yugoslavia today. So yet again despite the many mistakes another example of the West been right.
There atrocities on all sides in the conflict but Milosevic actively encouraged, helped and ordered terrorists sc**m like Arkan to commit terrible atrocities against Bosnians and Croats. |
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deeuu
Forum Owner
Joined: 15 Jul 2002
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Location: Walking in Ned Kelly's Footsteps
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| Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2006 4:30 pm Post subject: |
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| tony canhan wrote: |
| So yet again despite the many mistakes another example of the West been right.. |
Pinochet?
If you are content to wander around your whole life with your eyes closed I guess that's your problem.
As for comments re: Attitudes in Belgrade, why are the Belgrade Papers carrying banner headlines of "Murder" and "Milosevic killed by the Hague"? Oh right they don't give a crap.
Can the US/EU apologists stop regurgitating 'on message' NATO propaganda PLEASE...
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tony canhan
Senior First Team regular
Joined: 26 Apr 2004
Posts: 679
Location: Selby
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| Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2006 4:38 pm Post subject: |
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| deeuu wrote: |
As for comments re: Attitudes in Belgrade, why are the Belgrade Papers carrying banner headlines of "Murder" and "Milosevic killed by the Hague"? Oh right they don't give a crap.
Can the US/EU apologists stop regurgitating 'on message' NATO propaganda PLEASE... |
Why ? Because thanks to the actions of the West the people of Serbia now have freedom of speach unlike previously where Milosevic forced alot the free press underground. Which begs the question, why are all the self apologists hypocrites ?
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deeuu
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Location: Walking in Ned Kelly's Footsteps
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| Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2006 4:43 pm Post subject: |
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| tony canhan wrote: |
| deeuu wrote: |
As for comments re: Attitudes in Belgrade, why are the Belgrade Papers carrying banner headlines of "Murder" and "Milosevic killed by the Hague"? Oh right they don't give a crap.
Can the US/EU apologists stop regurgitating 'on message' NATO propaganda PLEASE... |
Why ? Because thanks to the actions of the West the people of Serbia now have freedom of speach unlike previously where Milosevic forced alot the free press underground. Which begs the question, why are all the self apologists hypocrites ?
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Somewhere else you've been on holiday maybe? My Serb neighbours don't see it that way...they we made homeless by NATO bombing...
| Branislav Popovic, Belgrade wrote: |
This is a sad time for Serbia. Many were not happy about what he did during his rule. But he defended the right of Serbia to express itself in the world.
We were denied many rights during the 1990s. We couldn't travel anywhere without a visa, sanctions left Serbia in poverty.
The death of Milosevic is the result of the arrogant criminal policy of the US and Nato.
I admired Milosevic for what he did in the late 1980s and in the beginning of the 1990s. But in 1993 he made a mistake by not democratising.
There are many misconceptions and media lies which create a negative vision of Serbia and the Serbs. Milosevic manipulated the media when he was in power. The rest of the world manipulates too.
And the crime has not ended yet. Kosovo is about to be stolen from the Serbs in favour of a national minority of non-European characteristics.
I fear that Serbia, the most tolerant and open-minded ex-Yugoslav nation in the 21st Century, will face economic and demographic catastrophe |
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Yabba
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Joined: 30 Jul 2002
Posts: 2472
Location: The LOYAL part of town
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| Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2006 4:57 pm Post subject: |
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| deeuu wrote: |
| tony canhan wrote: |
| So yet again despite the many mistakes another example of the West been right.. |
Pinochet?
If you are content to wander around your whole life with your eyes closed I guess that's your problem.
As for comments re: Attitudes in Belgrade, why are the Belgrade Papers carrying banner headlines of "Murder" and "Milosevic killed by the Hague"? Oh right they don't give a crap.
Can the US/EU apologists stop regurgitating 'on message' NATO propaganda PLEASE...
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Hardly NATO propaganda, the press here would love to show the masses showing grief, its simple you just don't find them.
The headlines reported are from the most hard-line nationalistic papers, not surprising they have said such things.
Why is his b***h hiding in Moscow - if they are much loved ?
The daughter of a Nazi sympathizer who sold out her fellow countrymen.
Sons pistol whipping disabled children for 'looking' at them , voices of dissent (news paper editors) executed.
Next you'll be telling us it was 'Allied' propaganda telling all that the Nazis were very bad people , but in your opinion we've been lied to all along.
Milosevic was another bad example for those who believe in a 'socialist world'. He was nothing but a murderous gangsters leader.
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tony canhan
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Joined: 26 Apr 2004
Posts: 679
Location: Selby
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| Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2006 4:59 pm Post subject: |
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| deeuu wrote: |
Somewhere else you've been on holiday maybe? My Serb neighbours don't see it that way...they we made homeless by NATO bombing...
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No but evidently before Milosevic arrived Yugoslavia or particulary Montenegro was a top holiday destination and my Mum and Dad had their honeymoon there. So that makes me no more of an expert than you.
Sorry for your Serbian neighbours but then again I don't think they will get much sympathy from the Bosnian guy I work with who lost nearly his entire family thanks to the actions of Milosevic and co. You can blame the West for many things but in no way can you blame them for the actual break up of Yugoslavia. I find it hard to comprehend why neighbours suddenly turn on eachother and whatever the wrongs of what happened later the West were picking up the pieces and despite the mistakes the desired outcome has been reached.
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LondonVillageRed
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Location: Driving to Harrogate with a net of Baby Bells
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| Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2006 5:03 pm Post subject: |
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| deeuu wrote: |
Somewhere else you've been on holiday maybe? My Serb neighbours don't see it that way...they we made homeless by NATO bombing...
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I thought Australia didn't support refugees? Not coming at this with an agenda before you get self righteous and insulting, I am genuinely curious as to how your neighbours fleeing to Aus fits in with what you have written elsewhere about your adopted land.
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deeuu
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Location: Walking in Ned Kelly's Footsteps
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| Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2006 5:17 pm Post subject: |
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| LondonVillageRed wrote: |
| deeuu wrote: |
Somewhere else you've been on holiday maybe? My Serb neighbours don't see it that way...they we made homeless by NATO bombing...
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I thought Australia didn't support refugees? Not coming at this with an agenda before you get self righteous and insulting, I am genuinely curious as to how your neighbours fleeing to Aus fits in with what you have written elsewhere about your adopted land.
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Good point LVR, they were "resettled" by the UN so Australia has by international convention, to take it's UN Refugee quota.
They can only block open applications which they FREQUENTLY do.
Hope that answers your point.
And before this goes off at a real tangent, would those who want to start posting OPINIONS THAT ARE NOT BASED ON FACTS i.e. Court Transcripts. personal knowledge etc please think first before making fools of themselves with claims of 100s of thousand of civilian dead etc..
NATO supported Bosnian Muslim and Kosovan Muslim terrorists. Personally I can't wait for the Al-Qaeda camps there to go active now that the Serbian Socialist Party has been emasculated in it's "War on Terrorism"
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tony canhan
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Joined: 26 Apr 2004
Posts: 679
Location: Selby
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| Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2006 5:35 pm Post subject: |
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| deeuu wrote: |
NATO supported Bosnian Muslim and Kosovan Muslim terrorists. Personally I can't wait for the Al-Qaeda camps there to go active now that the Serbian Socialist Party has been emasculated in it's "War on Terrorism" |
A notoriously volitile region. I suppose your alternitive back in 1992 was to leave them all to get on with killing eachother ? This is just the type of case the Self Apologists thrive on. Where the US and its Allies are "damned if they do, damned if they don't" At least now like in Iraq there is some hope for a future for the people of the Balkans. Althought it is obviously going to take alot of time.
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UkrainianPhil
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| Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2006 6:51 pm Post subject: |
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Evidence has been found today that Milosevic was murdered.
Let's hope someone is put on trial for that, yet I doubt it.
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Herman the Tosser
Part Time City Match Preveiwer
Joined: 26 Nov 2002
Posts: 5327
Location: Coming on top
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| Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2006 7:06 pm Post subject: |
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| UkrainianPhil wrote: |
| Evidence has been found today that Milosevic was murdered. |
Sorry, source?
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Herman the Tosser - jurnalism at it's finest!
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Fulfordgate
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Joined: 24 Feb 2006
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| Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2006 9:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Herman the Tosser wrote: |
| UkrainianPhil wrote: |
| Evidence has been found today that Milosevic was murdered. |
Sorry, source?
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Probably the same people who say he killed innocent people.
Perhaps we all only want to believe what we want to believe so until we have documented evidence that he was murdered perhaps we should maybe not jump to conclusion.
(I wonder if you would have believed the "evidence" Phil if it had been found today that he had merely choked on a fish bone or suffered a heart attack - or merely died in his sleep)?
As I say in cases like this we all tend to believe what we want to believe and dare I say we sometimes believe documented evidence because it says what we want it to say?
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UkrainianPhil
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Joined: 27 Dec 2003
Posts: 9066
Location: Mysteron HQ
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| Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2006 9:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Fulfordgate wrote: |
| As I say in cases like this we all tend to believe what we want to believe and dare I say we sometimes believe documented evidence because it says what we want it to say? |
Sadly too few people think for themselves these days.
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AllModCons
Poster of the Year 2003
Joined: 10 Aug 2002
Posts: 7252
Location: The other way around
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| Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2006 9:45 pm Post subject: |
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| UkrainianPhil wrote: |
Sadly too few people think for themselves these days. |
I agree.
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CityTillIDie
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Posts: 4619
Location: PRoH
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| Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2006 11:51 pm Post subject: |
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| AllModCons wrote: |
| UkrainianPhil wrote: |
Sadly too few people think for themselves these days. |
I agree.
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Thaaaaaaaat's magic!
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tony canhan
Senior First Team regular
Joined: 26 Apr 2004
Posts: 679
Location: Selby
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| Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2006 11:56 pm Post subject: |
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| UkrainianPhil wrote: |
| Fulfordgate wrote: |
| As I say in cases like this we all tend to believe what we want to believe and dare I say we sometimes believe documented evidence because it says what we want it to say? |
Sadly too few people think for themselves these days.
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Maybe but Milosevic has fallen by his sword and it is laughable to suggest that anyone of any significance in Serbia or anywhere in the Balkans are shedding tears for him.
He has fallen by his sword. I have certain sympathy with him as regards Kosovo because there is alot of hypocrasy from the West regarding the Yugoslavs been occupying forces in a land that had been recognised as part of Yugoslavia.
However there is no doubt that Milosevic's Belgrade Government supported the Bosnian Serb Republika Srpska which embarked on a campaign of ethnic cleansing across Bosnia by supplying heavy armour and supplies. This army also contained JNA units.
All this after the Bosnians along with Macedonia had not actually followed suit with Slovenia and Croatia by declaring independence. The Muslim leader Izetbegovics first government had included Serbs and was negotiating with Belgrade but a refrendum where the Serbs abstained en masse whilst Croats and Bosnians voted for secession.
Only the fact that Milosevic was using the Serb population as pawns in his Nationalistic ideal and ever increasing street protests forced the referendum. Also Izetbegovic was regarded as Muslim nationalist did not help but he was harldy an Islamist extremist as was made out. Bosnia was regarded as easy prey by Milosevic. The Slovenians had already inflicted a humiliating defeat on the Serbs and deep down Milosevic knew that in Bosnia his only option was to share it with the Croats hence why the Serbs stood aside whilst the Croats turned on Muslims in Mostar. All this despite the seperate conflict between Serbs and Croats in Croatia.
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